Offers I have dealt with have each been unique in the amount of time given. But, for most searches that I've been involved in (small liberal arts colleges), 1-2 weeks is a common window. You want to give people enough time to make a decision, but not so much that you lose a possible 2nd choice candidate. Usually, this window is set by the candidate and (for us) the dean making the offer when the offer is made. It is helpful to have a window in mind before getting the offer so that you can ask for time at that point. And, if you want more time, it is helpful to have a specific reason (like wanting to visit the area with a significant other before making a decision).
If you have a phone interview, do schools typically let you know if they are not going to invite you for an on campus interview? Or are you just left to assume that if you don't hear in a couple of weeks it is a no-go?
I recently received a nice e-mail from the SC chair explaining that they enjoyed speaking with me during the phone interview, but that I was not being invited for an on-campus interview. The committee had decided to go in a specific research direction, and I don't do that type of research. I appreciated the update.
I am an faculty member who started my career with an exploding offer. I was brought out as the only interview, stayed for several days, and then received an offer almost immediately. I had 10 days to decide. I took the job. Let me say that after that, I received a bunch of calls from other schools that I might have wanted to check out, but the truth is that a job is better than no job (bird in the hand, a bit of cognitive dissonance, etc.) More recently as a search committee member, I will tell you that I have seen a couple of people turn down exploding offers and then end up...unemployed, in post docs, or at less attractive schools.
I had one of those offers last year at the beginning of Dec. I took the job, and turned down other interview opportunities that came along afterwards. Then, the following Spring, funding for the the position was pulled, and I got a classy email from the Dean saying ooops, sorry, you can't work here afterall. This caused enormous stress, as my lab and home were already in storage and the hiring season was pretty much over. I lucked out and was offered my dream job the following June, so it all worked out. I wouldn't want to live that nightmare over again with the first school tough. I would say that if a search committee or dean is making one of the early offers and is pressuring you for a quick decision (which Misery U did to me last year) that you ask whether funding is already in place for the positon. Seems obvious that a place should have the funding before they go around hiring people, but as it turns out, some places don't.
OMG...that sounds horrible!!! It sounds like it all worked out for you. I cant imagine the stress you felt. That is a terrible thing to do to someone. What did you do during that year? It sounds like you waited another year for your current position?
If anyone is willing to share, what is a typical start-up amount for someone in social psychology? I was on a job interview this week and the exit interview (in which we discussed salary and start-up) was incredibly awkward and I have no idea if the amount I stated was super low or super high. What is a common start-up amount for a place with a PhD program? I know it varies by area (e.g., neuroscience will require more start-up than social psych).
RE Startup: The biggest factor is the question of what is automatically included versus what needs to be negotiated for, with the largest item here being RA support. For example, at most universities, 24 months of RA support will cost $30K-$40K (i.e., for the student's tuition waver, stipend, etc.). Thus, if RA support is already included, this large portion of your "budget" is automatically excluded. In these cases, a "typical" startup (if there is such a thing) for someone at an R1 PhD granting institution who does not need wildly expensive apparatuses, will likely be in the 50-60K range. If RA support is not included, it could certainly get into the 100K range.
I know these numbers may sound very large, but you have to realize that startup funds pay for *everything* you'll need to be successful for your first two or three years. Potential items to think about include (but are not necessarily limited to): conference travel, participant payment funds, summer salary support, psychological instrument purchasing, software (including multiple licenses for your office computer, home computer, and lab computers), all computing equiptment (sometimes including a departmentally-owned computer for your home, printers, printer toner, etc.), lab furniture, teaching aides, and a journal budget.
Anonymous @ 1:28 on 11/23, have you heard anything from that school? From your description above, I'm guessing that we both interviewed there last week.
Yeah, I haven't heard of any offers--other than Gettysburg--being made. I hope the wiki is being kept up to date. I've encouraged friends and colleagues who lurk to actually post, too. Anyhow, good luck.
I'm glad I can ask this question anonymously....but can anyone say if they've heard of someone accepting an offer, then later turning it down for another offer later? Clearly, bad form, but what are the other potential consequences if we're talking about "school of my absolute dreams" offering two months after taking "bird in the hand?" Just asking, because I honestly don't know.
I have heard of folks declining an accepted offer to take a better one, BUT it is usually as gossip about how aggravated everyone at University of Bird in Hand got at Applicant Benedict Arnold after they lost to University of Their Dreams.
Yeah, I'd be very careful about accepting something and then declining for something else - these people may someday be reviewers on something of yours or whatnot and it's not good to make enemies, imo.
I agree that it's not a good idea for one to decline an already accepted offer for a better one, but I also think that it is not fair for Bird in the Hand University to pressure young applicants like that. People starting their career should be free to make the decision that is best for them and they surely will be off to another university pretty fast if they are pressured into accepting an offer they really didn't want out of fear that they won't have a job later....
True. But, it's also not fair for applicants to hold onto a job when others are waiting behind them.
Nor is it fair to BIH U (Bird in Hand Univ) to have them wait on your decision and risk losing out hiring their second choice behind you if you decide to bail and go for U OYD (Univ Of Your Dreams) and then second choice is also gone.
It just ain't fair all around I guess unless every search is coordinated to end at the same time.
I just had my first on-site interview and the Dean told me that they give a week for applicants to decide (this is at a small liberal arts school). As previous posters said, they are anxious about losing their second choice if the first choice says no. And they apparently have the intention of making their first offer before the holidays. I don't know if this counts as an "exploding offer" or not.
More important than the specific amount of time a school gives you to make a decision, however, is the realization that once you've received a verbal offer, you're in the driver's seat (so to speak). You should, therefore, use this to leverage yourself as much time as necessary to make a decision you're comfortable with. For example, if a school gives you X weeks to decide, begin counting from the day you receive the formal, written offer (signed by the Dean) in the mail (as opposed to beginning counting from the day you receive the phone call from the department). Although most verbal offers eventually turn into formal written offers, you cannot consider anything "official" until it's in writing (especially in this economy). Also, don't be afraid to ask for more time to make your final decision...most schools will grant this (perhaps reluctantly though) to their top choice(s).
The last comment mentioned that you should wait until you receive a written offer signed by the dean. I received an offer last week, which involved a phone call from the chair followed by an e-mail from the chair (CCed to the dean) containing the offer from the dean. Would this e-mail count as a written offer? In this day and age I'm pretty sure that e-mails count as "having something in writing," but should I actually be waiting for a physical letter with a signature?
Do most of you follow-up with thank you emails/cards after an interview? Who specifically do you write to? Just the chair of the search committee or everyone you met with.
ALSO- what is usually the response from faculty? Do they usually "keep their cards close to them" so to speak in that they dont let on if you are a top choice or not? Maybe someone who is on a search committee could better answer this...
I sent a thank-you e-mail to almost everyone I met with during my interview. In each e-mail, I referenced specific conversations we had and I gave particular thanks to those who drove me around, had meals with me, etc. I would recommend e-mailing the people you had the most contact with (e.g., meals), which was my original plan, but then I decided to write a few other people with whom I had very enjoyable conversations.
I received an offer and during the interview they kept showing me around town, talking about what it's like to live there (one person wanted to show me a neighborhood but we ran out of time), and said things like "this would be your lab." I'm pretty sure they do all of these things to everyone (which is disconcerting when it happens because you don't want to get your hopes up), but for what it's worth, I did get an offer from the place that did these things.
I was the one who previously posted about the importance of getting a written offer.
Do not consider an email from the Department Head as “official.” Deans are typically the only people who can make offers; the Department Head merely communicates the desires of the department to the Dean. Thus, it is still possible that the Dean will go against the wishes of the department by declining your candidacy.
I know this because I had a personal experience with this where the Dean trumped the decision made by the psychology faculty. This is extremely rare, but it does happen (especially with new Deans or Deans who have a background in a field outside of the social sciences and/or in times of extreme economic hardship...i.e., now). Thus, do not count anything as 100% official until you have received a written offer that came directly from (and is signed by) the Dean (even then, however, your candidacy still needs to be endorsed by the Provost but, at this point, it is *much* more secure).
Thanks! That is helpful. How long did they give you to make a decision? I have several interviews scheduled after the holidays (through late Jan.) and have had a few in the last week...I am concerned I will be forced to make a decision before I go to all interviews.
I write thank you emails to the department head, everyone on the search committee, and everyone whom I met with who is also in my particular area of psychology . Above and beyond that is overkill IMHO.
I have found that it is not uncommon for people to indicate their personal feelings about you in their responses back (e.g., I really hope to see you here next year), but general pleasantries are certainly the norm and certainly nothing to worry about. Even very positive comments about how much a single individual liked you should not be taken as anything more than that, however, because it is still a group decision that needs to go through the formal chain of command (see posting above for greater details about the importance of this process).
Dec 8 11:01 AM mentioned that he/she had a lot of those "signs" that the department liked him/her (talking about what it's like to buy a house in that town, talking about "what your lab space will be like," etc.) and ultimately got an offer from that place, but speculated that the place talked like that for everyone. I am currently in a position where I had an interview like that (effusive "signals" coupled with very neutral statements about the process of interviewing 3 people and making a decision afterwards) and I am curious:
Does anyone have a story where they interviewed, felt like they had it in the bag based on signals from the faculty, and then didn't get an offer? Are there really departments that talk like that to everyone, regardless of whether or not they are a top choice? Or can one interpret these sorts of behaviors as meaningful?
Regarding time to make a decision: I had another interview lined up when they made an offer, and my interview was 2 weeks away. They said they usually had a 2-week deadline for an offer, but were willing to extend it for me until after the other interview. So, I have 18 days (a little under 3 weeks) to make a decision. I have heard that some places will say, "Sorry, it's your problem if you have another interview after our deadline," so their extension was very nice.
Interviews right before the holidays are quite stressful, and I understand your concerns. I contacted many other places I had applied to who all said they wouldn't even begin looking at applications until January, so I know that what I have now is all I am going to get, period. How stressful! I like the place where I was given an offer, but there are still the "what might have happened..." thoughts. I wish all interviews and decisions occurred at the same time (apparently this is the case in English departments?). This kind of goes back to the "bird in the hand"/"university of your dreams" problem, which could be avoided if interviews were coordinated.
Regarding the behaviors in interviews. I think it is really tough to tell and probably unwise to try and derive too much meaning from them. I had an interview very recently where it was clear I had done well. My talk received a standing ovation. The students were fascinated by my class. But you know, you just never know. If I try to analyze/predict the interview behaviors, it will just make me crazy during the wait, and will make me feel even worse if I'm rejected. All I can do is know that I did well, that I gave it my absolute best and hope it all works out.
Hi...I recently finished an interview and was told that if I received an offer, I would have only a few days to put together a start-up list. I know there are a few earlier comments on start-up funds, but I was wondering if anyone here knew of good resources to consult on this topic. Thanks!
I think I'm in the same boat as many of you guys. I had a great interview, the talk went well and everyone seemed to be very enthusiastic. They gave all the "signs": talking about startup and labspace, enthusiastic thank you emails, telling me about how great a place it is to live.... I'm still waiting to hear while they interview other candidates. So, I certainly hope that those signs are a good indicator, but they could say that to everyone. You never know...
It's important to keep in mind that it is in the school's best interest to make it seem like they are interested in you. It might very well be deliberate, given that they have already chosen you (even if you are third of three interviews, that's still third of 100 or more applications!)... they want to make sure you don't accept elsewhere while they decide. Besides that, they want you to picture yourself there, etc., so using that type of terminology also helps with that.
I still have yet to hear an account of someone who received all of the "signals" (discussion of what to do to negotiate for startup funds "when you get an offer," what "would be your lab space," where in town you'd like to live, etc.) and did NOT get an offer.
I mean, I understand that there are all sorts of reasons in the abstract why these things might mean nothing, but that line of logic hinges on the rather cynical assumption that schools are perfectly content to get their applicants' hopes up without good reason. I don't think we've seen any evidence of that happening this cycle. Is it possible that places have been tipping their hands to us and we're too afraid of rejection to appreciate it for what it is? They could have been neutral and they chose not to be. It might mean something.
I still ultimately agree with Dec 9 7:19am that it's better not to engage in this kind of microanalysis. I would love to be liberated from it, but alas, I don't think it's in me. I'm going to be agonizing until I hear back from the place I interviewed.
The link worked for me (just now) just copy and paste it into your browser. However the article title is, "Go Ahead, Haggle".
So, go ahead, haggle :) I'm going back to waiting with bated breath to see if I receive an offer or not from my positive (if it ends in an offer :) ) interview a few weeks back.
The best retirement benefit situation is when the university doubles your contribution (e.g., you put in 1%, they put in 2%; you put in 5%, they put in 10%). If they match your contributions (5% and 5%) that is still good. Some places contribute less than you do (you put in 5%, they put in 2%), which is of course very undesirable.
And that is all I know about benefits (regarding retirement specifically)... The best situation is if they double your contribution, but if they match it it's still a good deal.
To Dec 10 at 2:44, It is true that I am a cynic. No denying that. ;) But actually, it's not so much that I am under the "rather cynical assumption that schools are perfectly content to get their applicants' hopes up without good reason." It's more that if you are chosen to be interviewed, there is good reason to have hope: Even if you are second or even third choice, you've got a good shot at the position. Many positions end up in the hands of a second or third choice! How's that for microanalysis? ;)
Did anyone who interviewed for the SFSU social position also feel like the search committee was really into them (using really positive language, talking about specifics, etc.)?
Does anyone have any thoughts about how specific to get in one's start-up requests?
I get the sense that the powers-that-be would sometimes prefer requests to be somewhat vague and ambiguous, but this runs the risk of getting equipment (for example) that you're less than thrilled with.
Of course, if you get very specific, you also run the risk of looking overly presumptuous and like a Prima Donna. I'd love to hear any tips you all might have for navigating this process.
I've been told with startup packages that it's good to name what you need (be specific, but not very specific) and write a few lines about what you will use it for. It shows that you have thought it through and are not just randomly and thoughtlessly spending money.
From the previous poster who was a hopeless optimist re: "signs" from departments on interviews... For everyone's reference, I did *not* get an offer from the department who talked on multiple occasions about "when I get an offer" and "when I am faculty there."
I have some questions about negotiating salary once you have an offer, and I hope the people here might have some advice.
Everyone knows that the economy is hurting, and I think the level of salary included in current offers reflects that. (At least in my case, I was offered a very low salary, most likely lower than someone in this position would have received last year based on the Chronicle of Higher Ed reports: http://chronicle.com/stats/aaup/)
What are some strategies for negotiating higher salary? The salary you accept when you take a position becomes your base salary for the rest of your career there, and if you get tenure and retire at that place, that's a lot of money lost if you can't negotiate higher. (Which seems a bit unfair if people hired a year before or after this crisis will have a higher base salary than you for the rest of their career there, just because university funding was tight when you were hired.)
Having another job offer would certainly give a candidate more leverage when negotiating salary, but what about phone interviews and campus interviews? If you have to make a decision and have received phone and campus interview invites that would take place after the deadline for making a decision, can you use those to negotiate larger salary? What about personal reasons? For example, if you are going to be the primary breadwinner, is it acceptable to bring that up or does it carry no weight? What about national norms or within-institution average salaries? The salary I was offered for a tenure-track position is the same as what an instructor at that university would make (based on the AAUP data), and considerably lower than the national average for that position. Could bringing up this information backfire (i.e., will they perceive you as rude and pushy?) or should this be brought up?
Salary negotiations are a very tricky thing--the good news is that, at this stage of the game, the worst they can say is "no."
Here are some things to consider:
1) Internal equity norms: Some schools have official policies that say they cannot pay a new assistant prof. more than they pay someone who is already there. Thus, your salary may be limited by how much others in the dept. are making.
2) What else is offered? Sometimes a low salary can be compensated for by great start-up, the promise of summer funding (which may also be able to be negotiated for via start-up), etc. Be creative.
3) Cost of living. Many SLACs (for example) are in "sleepy college towns" with low costs of living.
4) Area norms. Some areas of psychology make substantially more or less than others. This may or may not be fair, but it's the way things work. Thus, any salary surveys that collapse across areas run the risk of creating an essentially meaningless average.
5) The primary bread-winner card: I would be *very* stand-offish about brining this up. One of the first rules of negotiating is to do it based on what you're *worth* not what you need (this, however, flies out the window when you're willing to walk away from an offer--see #6 below).
6) The thanks-but-no-thanks card. If you're at your wits-end and are still very dissatisfied with your ultimate offer, you can threaten to turn the school down. At this point, they'll likely ask "why" and here you can be as honest as necessary (e.g., I'm the primary bread-winner and I can't support my family on this salary). If the department *really* wants you, I'm sure they will go to the Dean to boost your salary as high as possible. That being said, there's still a firm ceiling on salaries, so it's very unlikely that your ultimate offer would come in much more than 3 to 5K more than your original offer.
When you say that the salary that you were offered was closer to the salary for instructors than assistant professors did you compare your salary to the estimated starting salary for assistant profs? I'm no math wiz, but I'm guessing that the salaries reported by the Chronicle are for assistant profs that have been at that school for approx 3 years. To make a more accurate comparison, I would think that you'd have to take the salary that you were offered and calculate what you'd make in 3 years. Then compare that number to what is reported by the Chronicle.
I don't know if this is possible for you, but some states report faculty salaries at state schools and this info can be found online if you google something like "state employee salary" AND the state's name (e.g., Kentucky). Although new hires from last year won't be in the database, you can sometimes find the actual salary of a newer hire in the department and then backtrack to estimate your starting salary.
I imagine that APA's data regarding salaries is more relevant than those provided by the Chronicle. APA breaks salaries down by type of university (public vs. private; masters vs. PhD), region, and rank.
Thank you all for the advice about salary. For this particular position, the salary reported by APA is similar to that from AAUP (available on Chronicle).
Re: discussion about salary, I found the data on the Chronicle to be quite accurate. I was quite fortunate to have received several offers, and all initial salary offers were very close to what was listed in the Chronicle. I found the APA data to be much more difficult to use b/c it's not specific to a University (at least not to my knowledge).
As for negotiating start-up costs, I have had very positive feedback to a budget that lists fairly specific requests with the source of all estimated costs listed. I think that it shows I have a very clear direction for my program of research and that I know what it takes to complete the work. I have found that the official offer that later comes does not hold me to my specific requests --- which gives me some flexibility when actually making the purchases. So, I would suggest getting fairly specific (for example, if you need a computer, say so, but don't give the make and model), but then also negotiate for some flexibility.
Sonoma State: For the person who updated the Wiki stating that the job at Sonoma State was offered and accepted. Is there a chance you made a mistake in where you placed the listing? I was contacted by someone on the committee stating that the job is still pending. They were spending the end of fall advocating for funding to continue the hire.
to the above poster, i also got a similar email... so i am hoping it safe to assume that the "offer accepted" should be for the other position that already had interviews.
all the job cancellations are driving me insane! i'm glad they were able to negotiate to keep it.
any sense of when the candidate has to make a decision to accept the offer or not? and also whether they might extend the offer to another candidate if this person does not accept?
I am curious about instances (posted on the Wikidot) where offers were extended and accepted on the same day. How is it possible for negotiations to proceed that quickly? Just curious.
I'm going to guess that the two events usually don't occur on the same day. Instead, the two events probably occurred on different days and are reported on the wiki at the same time.
My offer was "firm" meaning that I couldn't negotiate - so it was either take it or leave it. So I took it (the same day). I was told this was the highest salary/package the VPAA would approve, due to the economy. The offer was actually really good, but I also had another offer on the table which I used as leverage.
I've been told that a lot of schools are are using the "firm" tactic because the economy is in the tank.
Re: "firm" offers, I'd encourage anyone to still negotiate - even if not for salary (unless you have another offer on the table with more salary). You can still try to get better research support, materials for your job, office/lab space, etc.
I believe that Duke has already interviewed candidates. I have not been paying much attention, but I am a Duke student in another area and have received emails to attend job talks. The candidates seemed to be more senior (all coming from faculty jobs already)
Just wanted to echo the comment about negotiating for start up/lab space/other stuff even if you receive an offer that is "firm" in terms of salary. While my salary offer was firm, I was able to negotiate for a far better start up package than I ever expected, since this stuff comes from a different budget and often has more wiggle room.
What is the range of time an offer can sit in the Dean or the provost's office? I know sign off can happen quickly and that lag time may or may not signal trouble, but waiting is hard! Thanks...
Congrats on your offer! I'm also anxiously awaiting the arrival of my official letter. But I can address part of your question. My future Chair emailed me to say that the Dean had signed off on the offer letter and that it would be going to the Provost's office by the end of the day or early the next day. Due to the holiday break, it's hard to estimate exactly how long my letter was at the Dean's office. Excluding the holiday break (approx. Dec. 19th to Jan. 4th), I think it was at the Dean's office for 3 days.
Re: time for formal offer, I would say that it varies from institution to institution. Some schools prefer to negotiate everything verbally, so that only one formal letter needs to be sent. I think the key is staying in good communication with the school. If they are willing to be transparent, then you'll know where everything is each step of the way.
So here's something I don't understand too well. I had an on campus interview a couple of weeks ago, and I felt it went really well. Since I hadn't heard anything since then, I kind of felt I must not be the first choice. Well, today one of my recommenders sends me an email informing me that she had just been contacted by the CC and that everything seemed really positive. Why are they contacting my recommenders now? I thought they would have already done that. What might this mean?
I am the one who asked a few days ago about what it might mean that one of my recommenders was contacted a couple weeks after the on-campus interview. It turns out it was a good thing - I got an offer this evening. What a relief. Hard to believe how much life can change in a matter of minutes.
So now that I've gotten the offer, I'm dealing with the anxiety of negotiating. Salary is non-negotiable, but it's a good salary. What I'm not liking is the whole asking for some extra things like a laptop and software and stuff, on top of what they've already offered. Has anybody else found this part of the process to be stressful as well?
It's hard this year. My friend last year got over 150k in start-up. This year, I'm happy with 40k. Things are tight all around. This was not the year to be on the market, that's for sure.
I am hoping that the job market will be better in the fall. I decided not to apply anywhere for 2008-09, but I'll be hitting the market hard for 2009-10.
From what I've heard, things aren't expected to be much better next year (or the year after that) given the fiscal fallout from what is happening now. Add to that all of the candidates from this year who will be back on the market, new candidates, and so on... and I am feeling pessimistic.
Yeah, my understanding is that it is going to take 2-5 years to get the market fixed. Consider all of us who have nothing for next year returning with a batch of new people next year and likely less openings coming in the fall. Add to that several universities have had to lay off all tenure track (the ones not lucky enough to have tenure just yet) profs and you have a serious issue of overflow of qualified people. That being said, good luck!
Here's a stupid question: I've been asked about my spouse. Do universities assist in finding spouses jobs, even when those spouses do nothing remotely related to academia? I always assumed not, seeing as they don't exactly have power in the private sector...
Regarding non-academic spousal accommodations.....one of the faculty members at my current institution negotiated for employment assistance for her computer scientist husband. The dept head and the Dean of the College wrote him letters of recommendation and the university worked with him regarding job placement. I think you can get help from the university even when the spousal hire is not academic....and in places where the university is respected or has a big influence on the town this can be a huge help.
It may also be that they will be less able to help in a very formal manner, but may be able to help in other ways. The institution I am headed to helped to identify people within the institution who have contacts in the local area that will be of help to my spouse. She has been able to talk to a few faculty members and has begun to develop a bit of a network well in advance of our relocation.
I have been reading these comments about what to do if you accept an offer and something else (better) comes along later...
I have a question about a situation that is a bit of a twist on this:
What if you are given an offer for a one year contract position, which you accept, and then are later offered a tenure-track position at another university. Would it still be considered terribly bad from to go back and retract your acceptance of that offer for the one-year contract? Might universities be more understanding in this kind of scenario?
And what are the legal implications - if one has signed the letter accepting the one-year contract but then does not fulfil that contract?
Any thoughts or comments would be much appreciated.
Can you negotiate to defer the tenure-track job for a year? Deferring tenure-track positions for a year seems pretty common (I know several people who have done this) and this would give you a chance to honor your 1-year commitment without forgoing the tenure-track job.
Ah, that is interesting, I did not know that sometimes people would request to defer the tenure-track position. Good to know at least that there is some sort of precedent for this out there and it sounds like it is something to consider. Thank you for your feedback.
Any idea on whether Visiting Assistant Prof positions sometimes precede TT position searches? This assumes the position is not a sabbatical replacement. Just curious.
I know two people who took Visiting Assistant Prof positions. In one case the individual was able to reapply for and obtain a tenure track position there the following year. In the other case a tenure track position did not open up even though it had been suggested that a position would be available.
re: visiting positions becoming TT positions. I had a two year visiting position, and when I was hired for that, it was hinted to me that I would be on the short list for the TT position when it opened up (to begin the fall after my visiting position ended).
I elected to not pursue the TT position for a number of reasons (dept not a good fit, decided I'd rather do a mix of research/clinical work- or poke my eyes out with a burning skewer- at the med school than teach, etc), but based on feedback from my colleagues throughout the search process, the position would have been mine if I had wanted it.
105 comments:
On average, how much time do applicants have to make a decision after receiving an offer?
Has anyone had to deal with an exploding offer made early in the cycle?
Exploding offer? What is that?
Offers I have dealt with have each been unique in the amount of time given. But, for most searches that I've been involved in (small liberal arts colleges), 1-2 weeks is a common window. You want to give people enough time to make a decision, but not so much that you lose a possible 2nd choice candidate. Usually, this window is set by the candidate and (for us) the dean making the offer when the offer is made. It is helpful to have a window in mind before getting the offer so that you can ask for time at that point. And, if you want more time, it is helpful to have a specific reason (like wanting to visit the area with a significant other before making a decision).
If you have a phone interview, do schools typically let you know if they are not going to invite you for an on campus interview? Or are you just left to assume that if you don't hear in a couple of weeks it is a no-go?
In my experience, I haven't been contacted after phone interviews unless invited for an on campus interview.
Some interviewers will provide a time line.
Ideally, candidates invited for on campus interviews will update the wiki!
I recently received a nice e-mail from the SC chair explaining that they enjoyed speaking with me during the phone interview, but that I was not being invited for an on-campus interview. The committee had decided to go in a specific research direction, and I don't do that type of research. I appreciated the update.
I am an faculty member who started my career with an exploding offer. I was brought out as the only interview, stayed for several days, and then received an offer almost immediately. I had 10 days to decide. I took the job. Let me say that after that, I received a bunch of calls from other schools that I might have wanted to check out, but the truth is that a job is better than no job (bird in the hand, a bit of cognitive dissonance, etc.) More recently as a search committee member, I will tell you that I have seen a couple of people turn down exploding offers and then end up...unemployed, in post docs, or at less attractive schools.
I had one of those offers last year at the beginning of Dec. I took the job, and turned down other interview opportunities that came along afterwards. Then, the following Spring, funding for the the position was pulled, and I got a classy email from the Dean saying ooops, sorry, you can't work here afterall. This caused enormous stress, as my lab and home were already in storage and the hiring season was pretty much over. I lucked out and was offered my dream job the following June, so it all worked out. I wouldn't want to live that nightmare over again with the first school tough. I would say that if a search committee or dean is making one of the early offers and is pressuring you for a quick decision (which Misery U did to me last year) that you ask whether funding is already in place for the positon. Seems obvious that a place should have the funding before they go around hiring people, but as it turns out, some places don't.
OMG...that sounds horrible!!! It sounds like it all worked out for you. I cant imagine the stress you felt. That is a terrible thing to do to someone. What did you do during that year? It sounds like you waited another year for your current position?
If anyone is willing to share, what is a typical start-up amount for someone in social psychology? I was on a job interview this week and the exit interview (in which we discussed salary and start-up) was incredibly awkward and I have no idea if the amount I stated was super low or super high. What is a common start-up amount for a place with a PhD program? I know it varies by area (e.g., neuroscience will require more start-up than social psych).
RE Startup: The biggest factor is the question of what is automatically included versus what needs to be negotiated for, with the largest item here being RA support. For example, at most universities, 24 months of RA support will cost $30K-$40K (i.e., for the student's tuition waver, stipend, etc.). Thus, if RA support is already included, this large portion of your "budget" is automatically excluded. In these cases, a "typical" startup (if there is such a thing) for someone at an R1 PhD granting institution who does not need wildly expensive apparatuses, will likely be in the 50-60K range. If RA support is not included, it could certainly get into the 100K range.
I know these numbers may sound very large, but you have to realize that startup funds pay for *everything* you'll need to be successful for your first two or three years. Potential items to think about include (but are not necessarily limited to): conference travel, participant payment funds, summer salary support, psychological instrument purchasing, software (including multiple licenses for your office computer, home computer, and lab computers), all computing equiptment (sometimes including a departmentally-owned computer for your home, printers, printer toner, etc.), lab furniture, teaching aides, and a journal budget.
Hope this helps.
Thank you! The information about start-up funds is very helpful and I appreciate it.
Anonymous @ 1:28 on 11/23, have you heard anything from that school? From your description above, I'm guessing that we both interviewed there last week.
RE: 11/25 2:13pm
Nope, haven't heard anything yet. I don't know of any offers that have been made (in general) anywhere other than Gettysburg, either.
RE: 11/25 10:21pm
Yeah, I haven't heard of any offers--other than Gettysburg--being made. I hope the wiki is being kept up to date. I've encouraged friends and colleagues who lurk to actually post, too. Anyhow, good luck.
I'm glad I can ask this question anonymously....but can anyone say if they've heard of someone accepting an offer, then later turning it down for another offer later? Clearly, bad form, but what are the other potential consequences if we're talking about "school of my absolute dreams" offering two months after taking "bird in the hand?" Just asking, because I honestly don't know.
I've never heard of anyone accepting an offer and later declining it.
I have heard of folks declining an accepted offer to take a better one, BUT it is usually as gossip about how aggravated everyone at University of Bird in Hand got at Applicant Benedict Arnold after they lost to University of Their Dreams.
Yeah, I'd be very careful about accepting something and then declining for something else - these people may someday be reviewers on something of yours or whatnot and it's not good to make enemies, imo.
I agree that it's not a good idea for one to decline an already accepted offer for a better one, but I also think that it is not fair for Bird in the Hand University to pressure young applicants like that. People starting their career should be free to make the decision that is best for them and they surely will be off to another university pretty fast if they are pressured into accepting an offer they really didn't want out of fear that they won't have a job later....
True. But, it's also not fair for applicants to hold onto a job when others are waiting behind them.
Nor is it fair to BIH U (Bird in Hand Univ) to have them wait on your decision and risk losing out hiring their second choice behind you if you decide to bail and go for U OYD (Univ Of Your Dreams) and then second choice is also gone.
It just ain't fair all around I guess unless every search is coordinated to end at the same time.
I just had my first on-site interview and the Dean told me that they give a week for applicants to decide (this is at a small liberal arts school). As previous posters said, they are anxious about losing their second choice if the first choice says no. And they apparently have the intention of making their first offer before the holidays. I don't know if this counts as an "exploding offer" or not.
I have heard on my interviews from the SC and Dean that they will give two weeks to decide when an offer is extended. One week seems short to me.
More important than the specific amount of time a school gives you to make a decision, however, is the realization that once you've received a verbal offer, you're in the driver's seat (so to speak). You should, therefore, use this to leverage yourself as much time as necessary to make a decision you're comfortable with. For example, if a school gives you X weeks to decide, begin counting from the day you receive the formal, written offer (signed by the Dean) in the mail (as opposed to beginning counting from the day you receive the phone call from the department). Although most verbal offers eventually turn into formal written offers, you cannot consider anything "official" until it's in writing (especially in this economy). Also, don't be afraid to ask for more time to make your final decision...most schools will grant this (perhaps reluctantly though) to their top choice(s).
The last comment mentioned that you should wait until you receive a written offer signed by the dean. I received an offer last week, which involved a phone call from the chair followed by an e-mail from the chair (CCed to the dean) containing the offer from the dean. Would this e-mail count as a written offer? In this day and age I'm pretty sure that e-mails count as "having something in writing," but should I actually be waiting for a physical letter with a signature?
Do most of you follow-up with thank you emails/cards after an interview? Who specifically do you write to? Just the chair of the search committee or everyone you met with.
ALSO- what is usually the response from faculty? Do they usually "keep their cards close to them" so to speak in that they dont let on if you are a top choice or not? Maybe someone who is on a search committee could better answer this...
RE: Last post.
I sent a thank-you e-mail to almost everyone I met with during my interview. In each e-mail, I referenced specific conversations we had and I gave particular thanks to those who drove me around, had meals with me, etc. I would recommend e-mailing the people you had the most contact with (e.g., meals), which was my original plan, but then I decided to write a few other people with whom I had very enjoyable conversations.
I received an offer and during the interview they kept showing me around town, talking about what it's like to live there (one person wanted to show me a neighborhood but we ran out of time), and said things like "this would be your lab." I'm pretty sure they do all of these things to everyone (which is disconcerting when it happens because you don't want to get your hopes up), but for what it's worth, I did get an offer from the place that did these things.
I was the one who previously posted about the importance of getting a written offer.
Do not consider an email from the Department Head as “official.” Deans are typically the only people who can make offers; the Department Head merely communicates the desires of the department to the Dean. Thus, it is still possible that the Dean will go against the wishes of the department by declining your candidacy.
I know this because I had a personal experience with this where the Dean trumped the decision made by the psychology faculty. This is extremely rare, but it does happen (especially with new Deans or Deans who have a background in a field outside of the social sciences and/or in times of extreme economic hardship...i.e., now). Thus, do not count anything as 100% official until you have received a written offer that came directly from (and is signed by) the Dean (even then, however, your candidacy still needs to be endorsed by the Provost but, at this point, it is *much* more secure).
Re. Last Post
Thanks! That is helpful. How long did they give you to make a decision? I have several interviews scheduled after the holidays (through late Jan.) and have had a few in the last week...I am concerned I will be forced to make a decision before I go to all interviews.
I write thank you emails to the department head, everyone on the search committee, and everyone whom I met with who is also in my particular area of psychology . Above and beyond that is overkill IMHO.
I have found that it is not uncommon for people to indicate their personal feelings about you in their responses back (e.g., I really hope to see you here next year), but general pleasantries are certainly the norm and certainly nothing to worry about. Even very positive comments about how much a single individual liked you should not be taken as anything more than that, however, because it is still a group decision that needs to go through the formal chain of command (see posting above for greater details about the importance of this process).
Dec 8 11:01 AM mentioned that he/she had a lot of those "signs" that the department liked him/her (talking about what it's like to buy a house in that town, talking about "what your lab space will be like," etc.) and ultimately got an offer from that place, but speculated that the place talked like that for everyone. I am currently in a position where I had an interview like that (effusive "signals" coupled with very neutral statements about the process of interviewing 3 people and making a decision afterwards) and I am curious:
Does anyone have a story where they interviewed, felt like they had it in the bag based on signals from the faculty, and then didn't get an offer? Are there really departments that talk like that to everyone, regardless of whether or not they are a top choice? Or can one interpret these sorts of behaviors as meaningful?
Re: 12/8, 11:25 AM
Regarding time to make a decision: I had another interview lined up when they made an offer, and my interview was 2 weeks away. They said they usually had a 2-week deadline for an offer, but were willing to extend it for me until after the other interview. So, I have 18 days (a little under 3 weeks) to make a decision. I have heard that some places will say, "Sorry, it's your problem if you have another interview after our deadline," so their extension was very nice.
Interviews right before the holidays are quite stressful, and I understand your concerns. I contacted many other places I had applied to who all said they wouldn't even begin looking at applications until January, so I know that what I have now is all I am going to get, period. How stressful! I like the place where I was given an offer, but there are still the "what might have happened..." thoughts. I wish all interviews and decisions occurred at the same time (apparently this is the case in English departments?). This kind of goes back to the "bird in the hand"/"university of your dreams" problem, which could be avoided if interviews were coordinated.
Regarding the behaviors in interviews. I think it is really tough to tell and probably unwise to try and derive too much meaning from them. I had an interview very recently where it was clear I had done well. My talk received a standing ovation. The students were fascinated by my class. But you know, you just never know. If I try to analyze/predict the interview behaviors, it will just make me crazy during the wait, and will make me feel even worse if I'm rejected. All I can do is know that I did well, that I gave it my absolute best and hope it all works out.
Standing ovation?! I've never seen that. Not too shabby! :-)
Hi...I recently finished an interview and was told that if I received an offer, I would have only a few days to put together a start-up list. I know there are a few earlier comments on start-up funds, but I was wondering if anyone here knew of good resources to consult on this topic. Thanks!
I think I'm in the same boat as many of you guys. I had a great interview, the talk went well and everyone seemed to be very enthusiastic. They gave all the "signs": talking about startup and labspace, enthusiastic thank you emails, telling me about how great a place it is to live.... I'm still waiting to hear while they interview other candidates. So, I certainly hope that those signs are a good indicator, but they could say that to everyone. You never know...
It's important to keep in mind that it is in the school's best interest to make it seem like they are interested in you. It might very well be deliberate, given that they have already chosen you (even if you are third of three interviews, that's still third of 100 or more applications!)... they want to make sure you don't accept elsewhere while they decide. Besides that, they want you to picture yourself there, etc., so using that type of terminology also helps with that.
I still have yet to hear an account of someone who received all of the "signals" (discussion of what to do to negotiate for startup funds "when you get an offer," what "would be your lab space," where in town you'd like to live, etc.) and did NOT get an offer.
I mean, I understand that there are all sorts of reasons in the abstract why these things might mean nothing, but that line of logic hinges on the rather cynical assumption that schools are perfectly content to get their applicants' hopes up without good reason. I don't think we've seen any evidence of that happening this cycle. Is it possible that places have been tipping their hands to us and we're too afraid of rejection to appreciate it for what it is? They could have been neutral and they chose not to be. It might mean something.
I still ultimately agree with Dec 9 7:19am that it's better not to engage in this kind of microanalysis. I would love to be liberated from it, but alas, I don't think it's in me. I'm going to be agonizing until I hear back from the place I interviewed.
Start-up funds:
This is a good article:
http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2005/11/2005110801c.htm
Re: The chronicle article on start-up funds.
The above link does not work, do you know the name of the article so that I can search for it?
The link worked for me (just now) just copy and paste it into your browser. However the article title is, "Go Ahead, Haggle".
So, go ahead, haggle :) I'm going back to waiting with bated breath to see if I receive an offer or not from my positive (if it ends in an offer :) ) interview a few weeks back.
Anyone have any good info about benefits, especially retirement (what's a good percent contribution, what to look for, etc)?
The best retirement benefit situation is when the university doubles your contribution (e.g., you put in 1%, they put in 2%; you put in 5%, they put in 10%). If they match your contributions (5% and 5%) that is still good. Some places contribute less than you do (you put in 5%, they put in 2%), which is of course very undesirable.
And that is all I know about benefits (regarding retirement specifically)... The best situation is if they double your contribution, but if they match it it's still a good deal.
Retirement percentages: 4% and up is pretty good for matching based on the private sector.
December 10, 2008 11:32 PM - Thanks for the link! This is very helpful info to have as I negotiate my first ever negotiation! :)
To Dec 10 at 2:44, It is true that I am a cynic. No denying that. ;) But actually, it's not so much that I am under the "rather cynical assumption that schools are perfectly content to get their applicants' hopes up without good reason." It's more that if you are chosen to be interviewed, there is good reason to have hope: Even if you are second or even third choice, you've got a good shot at the position. Many positions end up in the hands of a second or third choice! How's that for microanalysis? ;)
December 11, 2008 1:54:
Here's hoping your analysis is correct :)
Did anyone who interviewed for the SFSU social position also feel like the search committee was really into them (using really positive language, talking about specifics, etc.)?
Apparently, TCNJ has filled its cognitive position. Any idea who they hired?
Does anyone have any thoughts about how specific to get in one's start-up requests?
I get the sense that the powers-that-be would sometimes prefer requests to be somewhat vague and ambiguous, but this runs the risk of getting equipment (for example) that you're less than thrilled with.
Of course, if you get very specific, you also run the risk of looking overly presumptuous and like a Prima Donna. I'd love to hear any tips you all might have for navigating this process.
I've been told with startup packages that it's good to name what you need (be specific, but not very specific) and write a few lines about what you will use it for. It shows that you have thought it through and are not just randomly and thoughtlessly spending money.
From the previous poster who was a hopeless optimist re: "signs" from departments on interviews... For everyone's reference, I did *not* get an offer from the department who talked on multiple occasions about "when I get an offer" and "when I am faculty there."
That's too bad. I'm sorry they got your hopes up so high. Any idea why they did that?
I have some questions about negotiating salary once you have an offer, and I hope the people here might have some advice.
Everyone knows that the economy is hurting, and I think the level of salary included in current offers reflects that. (At least in my case, I was offered a very low salary, most likely lower than someone in this position would have received last year based on the Chronicle of Higher Ed reports:
http://chronicle.com/stats/aaup/)
What are some strategies for negotiating higher salary? The salary you accept when you take a position becomes your base salary for the rest of your career there, and if you get tenure and retire at that place, that's a lot of money lost if you can't negotiate higher. (Which seems a bit unfair if people hired a year before or after this crisis will have a higher base salary than you for the rest of their career there, just because university funding was tight when you were hired.)
Having another job offer would certainly give a candidate more leverage when negotiating salary, but what about phone interviews and campus interviews? If you have to make a decision and have received phone and campus interview invites that would take place after the deadline for making a decision, can you use those to negotiate larger salary? What about personal reasons? For example, if you are going to be the primary breadwinner, is it acceptable to bring that up or does it carry no weight? What about national norms or within-institution average salaries? The salary I was offered for a tenure-track position is the same as what an instructor at that university would make (based on the AAUP data), and considerably lower than the national average for that position. Could bringing up this information backfire (i.e., will they perceive you as rude and pushy?) or should this be brought up?
Salary negotiations are a very tricky thing--the good news is that, at this stage of the game, the worst they can say is "no."
Here are some things to consider:
1) Internal equity norms: Some schools have official policies that say they cannot pay a new assistant prof. more than they pay someone who is already there. Thus, your salary may be limited by how much others in the dept. are making.
2) What else is offered? Sometimes a low salary can be compensated for by great start-up, the promise of summer funding (which may also be able to be negotiated for via start-up), etc. Be creative.
3) Cost of living. Many SLACs (for example) are in "sleepy college towns" with low costs of living.
4) Area norms. Some areas of psychology make substantially more or less than others. This may or may not be fair, but it's the way things work. Thus, any salary surveys that collapse across areas run the risk of creating an essentially meaningless average.
5) The primary bread-winner card: I would be *very* stand-offish about brining this up. One of the first rules of negotiating is to do it based on what you're *worth* not what you need (this, however, flies out the window when you're willing to walk away from an offer--see #6 below).
6) The thanks-but-no-thanks card. If you're at your wits-end and are still very dissatisfied with your ultimate offer, you can threaten to turn the school down. At this point, they'll likely ask "why" and here you can be as honest as necessary (e.g., I'm the primary bread-winner and I can't support my family on this salary). If the department *really* wants you, I'm sure they will go to the Dean to boost your salary as high as possible. That being said, there's still a firm ceiling on salaries, so it's very unlikely that your ultimate offer would come in much more than 3 to 5K more than your original offer.
RE: December 20, 2008 9:08 AM
When you say that the salary that you were offered was closer to the salary for instructors than assistant professors did you compare your salary to the estimated starting salary for assistant profs? I'm no math wiz, but I'm guessing that the salaries reported by the Chronicle are for assistant profs that have been at that school for approx 3 years. To make a more accurate comparison, I would think that you'd have to take the salary that you were offered and calculate what you'd make in 3 years. Then compare that number to what is reported by the Chronicle.
I don't know if this is possible for you, but some states report faculty salaries at state schools and this info can be found online if you google something like "state employee salary" AND the state's name (e.g., Kentucky). Although new hires from last year won't be in the database, you can sometimes find the actual salary of a newer hire in the department and then backtrack to estimate your starting salary.
Good luck with the negotiations!
I imagine that APA's data regarding salaries is more relevant than those provided by the Chronicle. APA breaks salaries down by type of university (public vs. private; masters vs. PhD), region, and rank.
Thank you all for the advice about salary. For this particular position, the salary reported by APA is similar to that from AAUP (available on Chronicle).
Re: discussion about salary, I found the data on the Chronicle to be quite accurate. I was quite fortunate to have received several offers, and all initial salary offers were very close to what was listed in the Chronicle. I found the APA data to be much more difficult to use b/c it's not specific to a University (at least not to my knowledge).
As for negotiating start-up costs, I have had very positive feedback to a budget that lists fairly specific requests with the source of all estimated costs listed. I think that it shows I have a very clear direction for my program of research and that I know what it takes to complete the work. I have found that the official offer that later comes does not hold me to my specific requests --- which gives me some flexibility when actually making the purchases. So, I would suggest getting fairly specific (for example, if you need a computer, say so, but don't give the make and model), but then also negotiate for some flexibility.
Sonoma State:
For the person who updated the Wiki stating that the job at Sonoma State was offered and accepted. Is there a chance you made a mistake in where you placed the listing? I was contacted by someone on the committee stating that the job is still pending. They were spending the end of fall advocating for funding to continue the hire.
re: sonoma state social position
to the above poster, i also got a similar email... so i am hoping it safe to assume that the "offer accepted" should be for the other position that already had interviews.
all the job cancellations are driving me insane! i'm glad they were able to negotiate to keep it.
Rutgers GSAPP Position?
Does anyone know if they offered the position to a candidate?
re: Rutgers GSAPP
Yes, I know they made an offer.
Re Sonoma State:
Information on Wiki is correct. Offer was made and accepted 12/16. It is quite possible that there is more than one position open.
re: Rutgers GSAPP
any sense of when the candidate has to make a decision to accept the offer or not? and also whether they might extend the offer to another candidate if this person does not accept?
Does anyone have any news about the Loyola University Chicago cog neuro positon?
I am curious about instances (posted on the Wikidot) where offers were extended and accepted on the same day. How is it possible for negotiations to proceed that quickly? Just curious.
I'm going to guess that the two events usually don't occur on the same day. Instead, the two events probably occurred on different days and are reported on the wiki at the same time.
LOL. Yeah, that would make sense wouldn't it?
RE: 1/8 at 11:00AM
My offer was "firm" meaning that I couldn't negotiate - so it was either take it or leave it. So I took it (the same day). I was told this was the highest salary/package the VPAA would approve, due to the economy. The offer was actually really good, but I also had another offer on the table which I used as leverage.
I've been told that a lot of schools are are using the "firm" tactic because the economy is in the tank.
Re: "firm" offers, I'd encourage anyone to still negotiate - even if not for salary (unless you have another offer on the table with more salary). You can still try to get better research support, materials for your job, office/lab space, etc.
Has anyone heard about SF State making an offer for the social position?
Anyone heard about the Duke and/or UNC-Chapel Hill social jobs? Have they interviewed anyone? Thanks.
I believe that Duke has already interviewed candidates. I have not been paying much attention, but I am a Duke student in another area and have received emails to attend job talks. The candidates seemed to be more senior (all coming from faculty jobs already)
Just wanted to echo the comment about negotiating for start up/lab space/other stuff even if you receive an offer that is "firm" in terms of salary. While my salary offer was firm, I was able to negotiate for a far better start up package than I ever expected, since this stuff comes from a different budget and often has more wiggle room.
What is the range of time an offer can sit in the Dean or the provost's office? I know sign off can happen quickly and that lag time may or may not signal trouble, but waiting is hard! Thanks...
Congrats on your offer! I'm also anxiously awaiting the arrival of my official letter. But I can address part of your question. My future Chair emailed me to say that the Dean had signed off on the offer letter and that it would be going to the Provost's office by the end of the day or early the next day. Due to the holiday break, it's hard to estimate exactly how long my letter was at the Dean's office. Excluding the holiday break (approx. Dec. 19th to Jan. 4th), I think it was at the Dean's office for 3 days.
Thank you (for the congrats and the response) - that's helpful!
Re: the question about the UNC social job: My understanding is that an offer was already extended (as well as accepted).
Re: time for formal offer, I would say that it varies from institution to institution. Some schools prefer to negotiate everything verbally, so that only one formal letter needs to be sent. I think the key is staying in good communication with the school. If they are willing to be transparent, then you'll know where everything is each step of the way.
So here's something I don't understand too well. I had an on campus interview a couple of weeks ago, and I felt it went really well. Since I hadn't heard anything since then, I kind of felt I must not be the first choice. Well, today one of my recommenders sends me an email informing me that she had just been contacted by the CC and that everything seemed really positive. Why are they contacting my recommenders now? I thought they would have already done that. What might this mean?
Can anyone give me information on how I should calculate "summer salary" when I am negotiating?
"Can anyone give me information on how I should calculate "summer salary" when I am negotiating?
It should be 2/9 of your base annual salary. That's quite standard, although of course some schools might differ.
Does anyone have information about the Georgetown Psych-law-public policy position?
I am the one who asked a few days ago about what it might mean that one of my recommenders was contacted a couple weeks after the on-campus interview. It turns out it was a good thing - I got an offer this evening. What a relief. Hard to believe how much life can change in a matter of minutes.
So now that I've gotten the offer, I'm dealing with the anxiety of negotiating. Salary is non-negotiable, but it's a good salary. What I'm not liking is the whole asking for some extra things like a laptop and software and stuff, on top of what they've already offered. Has anybody else found this part of the process to be stressful as well?
It's hard this year. My friend last year got over 150k in start-up. This year, I'm happy with 40k. Things are tight all around. This was not the year to be on the market, that's for sure.
I am hoping that the job market will be better in the fall. I decided not to apply anywhere for 2008-09, but I'll be hitting the market hard for 2009-10.
From what I've heard, things aren't expected to be much better next year (or the year after that) given the fiscal fallout from what is happening now. Add to that all of the candidates from this year who will be back on the market, new candidates, and so on... and I am feeling pessimistic.
Yeah, my understanding is that it is going to take 2-5 years to get the market fixed. Consider all of us who have nothing for next year returning with a batch of new people next year and likely less openings coming in the fall. Add to that several universities have had to lay off all tenure track (the ones not lucky enough to have tenure just yet) profs and you have a serious issue of overflow of qualified people. That being said, good luck!
"Add to that several universities have had to lay off all tenure track (the ones not lucky enough to have tenure just yet) profs"
That's the first I've heard of this; do you know of examples of universities that have done this? That's pretty chilling.
http://www.gatorsports.com/article/20090124/NEWS/901241007
Here is one.... probably more as my own faculty were talking about it in a recent meeting but they were not naming names.
Here's a stupid question: I've been asked about my spouse. Do universities assist in finding spouses jobs, even when those spouses do nothing remotely related to academia? I always assumed not, seeing as they don't exactly have power in the private sector...
Anyone know about the Old Dominion U job offer extended in Feb? Was this an official or unofficial offer?
Regarding non-academic spousal accommodations.....one of the faculty members at my current institution negotiated for employment assistance for her computer scientist husband. The dept head and the Dean of the College wrote him letters of recommendation and the university worked with him regarding job placement. I think you can get help from the university even when the spousal hire is not academic....and in places where the university is respected or has a big influence on the town this can be a huge help.
Regarding non-academic spousal accommodations:
It may also be that they will be less able to help in a very formal manner, but may be able to help in other ways. The institution I am headed to helped to identify people within the institution who have contacts in the local area that will be of help to my spouse. She has been able to talk to a few faculty members and has begun to develop a bit of a network well in advance of our relocation.
I have been reading these comments about what to do if you accept an offer and something else (better) comes along later...
I have a question about a situation that is a bit of a twist on this:
What if you are given an offer for a one year contract position, which you accept, and then are later offered a tenure-track position at another university. Would it still be considered terribly bad from to go back and retract your acceptance of that offer for the one-year contract?
Might universities be more understanding in this kind of scenario?
And what are the legal implications - if one has signed the letter accepting the one-year contract but then does not fulfil that contract?
Any thoughts or comments would be much appreciated.
Can you negotiate to defer the tenure-track job for a year? Deferring tenure-track positions for a year seems pretty common (I know several people who have done this) and this would give you a chance to honor your 1-year commitment without forgoing the tenure-track job.
Ah, that is interesting, I did not know that sometimes people would request to defer the tenure-track position. Good to know at least that there is some sort of precedent for this out there and it sounds like it is something to consider. Thank you for your feedback.
I know people who have deferred the start of a tenure-track position for a year to do an extra year of a postdoc.
If you accepted (or declined) an offer, will you please update it on the wiki - several searches that must be finished by now are not updated. Thanks!
Any idea on whether Visiting Assistant Prof positions sometimes precede TT position searches? This assumes the position is not a sabbatical replacement. Just curious.
I know two people who took Visiting Assistant Prof positions. In one case the individual was able to reapply for and obtain a tenure track position there the following year. In the other case a tenure track position did not open up even though it had been suggested that a position would be available.
re: visiting positions becoming TT positions. I had a two year visiting position, and when I was hired for that, it was hinted to me that I would be on the short list for the TT position when it opened up (to begin the fall after my visiting position ended).
I elected to not pursue the TT position for a number of reasons (dept not a good fit, decided I'd rather do a mix of research/clinical work- or poke my eyes out with a burning skewer- at the med school than teach, etc), but based on feedback from my colleagues throughout the search process, the position would have been mine if I had wanted it.
Did everyone get a job? people stopped updating the website but there are some jobs on the market.
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